1 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:05,920 [Music] 2 00:00:11,830 --> 00:00:09,090 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 3 00:00:13,910 --> 00:00:11,840 from Australia for science and reason 4 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:13,920 [Music] 5 00:00:21,790 --> 00:00:16,850 [Applause] 6 00:00:24,410 --> 00:00:21,800 [Music] 7 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:24,420 yes it's the skeptic zone podcast 8 00:00:31,850 --> 00:00:28,410 episode number 489 for the 4th of March 9 00:00:33,740 --> 00:00:31,860 2018 Richard Saunders here with you from 10 00:00:36,619 --> 00:00:33,750 Sydney Australia a little bit wet and 11 00:00:39,259 --> 00:00:36,629 overcast but not too bad coming up on 12 00:00:41,869 --> 00:00:39,269 this week's show it's Mandy Lee Noble 13 00:00:46,759 --> 00:00:41,879 the diet sceptic back again with the 14 00:00:49,819 --> 00:00:46,769 report about is food really medicine is 15 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:49,829 it is it is it Mandy Lee went to a cafe 16 00:00:53,150 --> 00:00:52,290 looked at the menu and nearly fell off 17 00:00:56,119 --> 00:00:53,160 her chair 18 00:00:58,700 --> 00:00:56,129 he wild and crazy claims being made for 19 00:01:00,590 --> 00:00:58,710 the menu items makes her a good report 20 00:01:04,999 --> 00:01:00,600 by Mandy Lee where she reads out the 21 00:01:08,660 --> 00:01:05,009 menu items and the claims the health 22 00:01:10,820 --> 00:01:08,670 claims for the food that she saw the 23 00:01:12,969 --> 00:01:10,830 diet skeptic manually noble to kick off 24 00:01:15,499 --> 00:01:12,979 this week's episode of the skeptic zone 25 00:01:17,570 --> 00:01:15,509 then we catch up with an old friend of 26 00:01:19,310 --> 00:01:17,580 the show Michael Marshall from the good 27 00:01:22,010 --> 00:01:19,320 thinking society all the way over there 28 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:22,020 in the UK and Marsh will be telling us 29 00:01:27,529 --> 00:01:24,450 about the latest developments with the 30 00:01:29,900 --> 00:01:27,539 homeopathic Hospital eye homeopathic 31 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:29,910 hospital it's one that doesn't exist 32 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:32,490 surely what's what's this building it's 33 00:01:37,639 --> 00:01:34,170 a homeopathic building it's a vacant lot 34 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:37,649 yes you're getting the idea the end of 35 00:01:43,130 --> 00:01:40,410 the homeopathic hospital and spin around 36 00:01:45,109 --> 00:01:43,140 for a very long time and you'll hear 37 00:01:48,710 --> 00:01:45,119 mosh and I discuss the fact that the 38 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:48,720 Queen herself visited the hospital way 39 00:01:54,889 --> 00:01:52,530 back in the 1950s always good to catch 40 00:01:55,669 --> 00:01:54,899 up with Michael Marshall then to round 41 00:01:58,240 --> 00:01:55,679 off the show 42 00:02:00,859 --> 00:01:58,250 Maynard may not spooky action in the pub 43 00:02:04,430 --> 00:02:00,869 may not always have spooky action in the 44 00:02:05,990 --> 00:02:04,440 pub this time may not joined us and was 45 00:02:09,169 --> 00:02:06,000 part of the fun at skeptics in the pub 46 00:02:11,150 --> 00:02:09,179 for trivia skeptical trivia and what 47 00:02:13,220 --> 00:02:11,160 we're going to do is we're going to play 48 00:02:16,580 --> 00:02:13,230 you a couple of interviews and also 49 00:02:21,140 --> 00:02:16,590 round 120 sceptical questions to test 50 00:02:23,900 --> 00:02:21,150 your sceptical trivia knowledge and if 51 00:02:26,210 --> 00:02:23,910 you like it go to the Facebook page and 52 00:02:28,420 --> 00:02:26,220 say you enjoyed that or didn't enjoy 53 00:02:31,099 --> 00:02:28,430 that and if enough people or even one 54 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:31,109 says they enjoyed listening to sceptical 55 00:02:34,570 --> 00:02:33,450 trivia we'll play you round two next 56 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:34,580 week which was done by 57 00:02:39,310 --> 00:02:36,410 era Benham and round three the week 58 00:02:41,190 --> 00:02:39,320 after that with Maine odd but this week 59 00:02:43,900 --> 00:02:41,200 it'll be me reading out the questions 60 00:02:47,610 --> 00:02:43,910 for skeptical trivia in quick succession 61 00:02:50,110 --> 00:02:47,620 so it's very tightly edited and then 62 00:02:53,020 --> 00:02:50,120 after that you'll hear the answers to 63 00:02:56,050 --> 00:02:53,030 sort of see how you how you scored or at 64 00:02:57,810 --> 00:02:56,060 least how you think you went being a bit 65 00:03:03,250 --> 00:02:57,820 of a strange week for me I've got a 66 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:03,260 temporary crown on my back tooth which 67 00:03:08,380 --> 00:03:05,570 is really good because it means I can 68 00:03:11,050 --> 00:03:08,390 drink cool liquid now and not be in pain 69 00:03:12,850 --> 00:03:11,060 let's fix that problem but the crown 70 00:03:16,390 --> 00:03:12,860 doesn't quite fit properly so I can't 71 00:03:18,100 --> 00:03:16,400 chew very well it's a bit of a mixed bag 72 00:03:21,180 --> 00:03:18,110 really I still have to wait another week 73 00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:21,190 for the permanent crown ouch 74 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:25,930 skeptical dentistry you know there is a 75 00:03:31,870 --> 00:03:29,570 clinic or more I remember seeing it mind 76 00:03:34,630 --> 00:03:31,880 body wallet festivals where they will 77 00:03:38,190 --> 00:03:34,640 take out all your amalgam and replace it 78 00:03:40,479 --> 00:03:38,200 with something else because various 79 00:03:42,670 --> 00:03:40,489 pseudo-scientific claims maybe this is 80 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:42,680 maybe this has given me an idea for a 81 00:03:46,690 --> 00:03:45,410 report for a future skeptic sound but 82 00:03:48,610 --> 00:03:46,700 for now it's time for me to run 83 00:03:51,610 --> 00:03:48,620 downstairs and eat something soft again 84 00:03:53,979 --> 00:03:51,620 marshmallows Oh marshmallows and hot 85 00:03:58,030 --> 00:03:53,989 chocolate that's okay while I do that I 86 00:03:58,030 --> 00:03:58,040 hope you enjoy the skeptic zone 87 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:11,740 [Music] 88 00:04:21,020 --> 00:04:13,850 that looks good enough to eat 89 00:04:29,020 --> 00:04:21,030 or does it here's the diet skeptic man 90 00:04:32,659 --> 00:04:29,030 daily Nobel hello skeptics and listeners 91 00:04:39,830 --> 00:04:32,669 Mandee Lee Nobel here dietitian and 92 00:04:42,230 --> 00:04:39,840 skeptic reporting from Brisbane this 93 00:04:45,230 --> 00:04:42,240 week start skeptic report was prompted 94 00:04:48,110 --> 00:04:45,240 by a recent weekend away to coastal 95 00:04:50,750 --> 00:04:48,120 northern New South Wales which include 96 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:50,760 the obligatory Sunday morning breakfast 97 00:04:57,290 --> 00:04:54,810 and a local hipster cafe perusing the 98 00:04:59,570 --> 00:04:57,300 menu brought my attention to a food 99 00:05:02,870 --> 00:04:59,580 trend that seems to become deeply 100 00:05:05,450 --> 00:05:02,880 entrenched in our cafe culture in the 101 00:05:08,450 --> 00:05:05,460 place of appetite inducing descriptions 102 00:05:09,909 --> 00:05:08,460 of meals and beverages once described in 103 00:05:12,950 --> 00:05:09,919 terms of being thirst-quenching 104 00:05:15,529 --> 00:05:12,960 wholesome or plainly delicious 105 00:05:19,159 --> 00:05:15,539 there was a smorgasbord of health claims 106 00:05:22,820 --> 00:05:19,169 attached to superfood ingredients as 107 00:05:24,950 --> 00:05:22,830 both an avid consumer of cafe fare and a 108 00:05:26,899 --> 00:05:24,960 dietitian the one thing that is even 109 00:05:29,629 --> 00:05:26,909 more infuriating than having my 110 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:29,639 breakfast reduced to a colon cleanse is 111 00:05:36,830 --> 00:05:31,770 that many of these health claims are 112 00:05:39,020 --> 00:05:36,840 just absolute people so for this episode 113 00:05:41,210 --> 00:05:39,030 of the diet sceptic I thought I would 114 00:05:43,610 --> 00:05:41,220 list some of the menu items I found 115 00:05:46,909 --> 00:05:43,620 somewhat baffling and discuss their 116 00:05:49,370 --> 00:05:46,919 complete lack of plausibility but before 117 00:05:51,529 --> 00:05:49,380 we get started listeners you may be 118 00:05:54,710 --> 00:05:51,539 surprised to know that many of my 119 00:05:57,290 --> 00:05:54,720 baffling menu items are also described 120 00:05:58,879 --> 00:05:57,300 as organic so I'd like to make the 121 00:06:02,029 --> 00:05:58,889 blanket statement that there is 122 00:06:04,219 --> 00:06:02,039 absolutely no convincing evidence that 123 00:06:06,860 --> 00:06:04,229 organically grown food provides any 124 00:06:11,180 --> 00:06:06,870 nutritional benefit over non organically 125 00:06:14,420 --> 00:06:11,190 grown food and with that aside here are 126 00:06:17,060 --> 00:06:14,430 half a dozen selected items I have found 127 00:06:19,550 --> 00:06:17,070 recently on cafe menus the 128 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:19,560 not only turn the joy of eating out into 129 00:06:26,060 --> 00:06:22,170 a dilemma of pseudo health claims but 130 00:06:30,700 --> 00:06:26,070 are also completely nonsensical number 131 00:06:33,860 --> 00:06:30,710 one smoothie with organic spirulina 132 00:06:37,210 --> 00:06:33,870 containing literally hundreds of 133 00:06:41,390 --> 00:06:37,220 vitamins and minerals this claim is 134 00:06:43,340 --> 00:06:41,400 literally ridiculous as the nutrient 135 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:43,350 reference fees for Australia and New 136 00:06:49,030 --> 00:06:45,810 Zealand based on current available 137 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:49,040 scientific evidence and developed by 138 00:06:57,260 --> 00:06:50,970 National Health and Medical Research 139 00:06:59,630 --> 00:06:57,270 Council include only 14 vitamins and 14 140 00:07:03,140 --> 00:06:59,640 minerals and trace elements giving a 141 00:07:05,090 --> 00:07:03,150 total of 28 vitamins and minerals or 142 00:07:07,730 --> 00:07:05,100 trace elements for which there is 143 00:07:09,590 --> 00:07:07,740 sufficient evidence to demonstrate that 144 00:07:12,620 --> 00:07:09,600 they are essential to the diet of humans 145 00:07:15,170 --> 00:07:12,630 this is far short to the literal 146 00:07:17,020 --> 00:07:15,180 hundreds claiming to be provided by the 147 00:07:25,940 --> 00:07:17,030 smoothie 148 00:07:28,450 --> 00:07:25,950 oil high in essential fatty acids this 149 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:28,460 claim leaves me completely dumbfounded 150 00:07:34,850 --> 00:07:31,770 because not only is coconut oil not high 151 00:07:37,220 --> 00:07:34,860 in essential fatty acids coconut oil 152 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:37,230 actually contains no essential fatty 153 00:07:43,420 --> 00:07:39,930 acids you can find out more about 154 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:43,430 coconut oil in one of my earlier reports 155 00:07:51,290 --> 00:07:47,810 number three coconut chai latte 156 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:51,300 containing spice matcha powder that 157 00:07:57,890 --> 00:07:55,050 increases metabolism this one drives me 158 00:08:00,200 --> 00:07:57,900 crazy because in one way it is less than 159 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:00,210 a remarkable claim that eating food 160 00:08:06,380 --> 00:08:03,450 increases metabolism all ingestion of 161 00:08:09,580 --> 00:08:06,390 food increases metabolic rate by 10 to 162 00:08:12,340 --> 00:08:09,590 20 percent for the following few hours 163 00:08:15,290 --> 00:08:12,350 this is called the food-induced 164 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:15,300 thermogenesis and it's caused by the 165 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:17,970 processing of nutrients by the liver not 166 00:08:23,420 --> 00:08:19,890 by the energy expended by the 167 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:23,430 gastrointestinal tract the processing of 168 00:08:27,740 --> 00:08:25,410 protein by the liver expends a most 169 00:08:31,130 --> 00:08:27,750 energy in comparison to carbohydrate and 170 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:31,140 fat this is where the claim is so 171 00:08:36,560 --> 00:08:34,050 annoying as this particular latter is 172 00:08:38,570 --> 00:08:36,570 made on coconut milk there forward 173 00:08:40,430 --> 00:08:38,580 actually increase your metabolism less 174 00:08:44,630 --> 00:08:40,440 than if it had been made on regular 175 00:08:47,540 --> 00:08:44,640 cow's milk furthermore the matcha powder 176 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:47,550 which is a finely ground powder of green 177 00:08:51,950 --> 00:08:49,650 tea leaves has not been found to have an 178 00:08:53,950 --> 00:08:51,960 effect on metabolism over that of 179 00:08:58,610 --> 00:08:53,960 regular coffee 180 00:09:02,390 --> 00:08:58,620 number four amenity nutrient shot of 181 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:02,400 cold pressed turmeric ginger lemon 182 00:09:10,510 --> 00:09:06,930 Canaan and pineapple that is both amine 183 00:09:13,460 --> 00:09:10,520 enhancing and sinus pressure relieving 184 00:09:15,650 --> 00:09:13,470 this leaves me very perplexed because 185 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:15,660 the cause of sinus pressure for many 186 00:09:21,020 --> 00:09:18,930 people is hay fever in fact hay fever is 187 00:09:24,650 --> 00:09:21,030 experienced by 18 percent of Australians 188 00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:24,660 and hay fever is caused by an overactive 189 00:09:30,470 --> 00:09:27,690 immune system so even if the health 190 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:30,480 claims made by this drink were true for 191 00:09:35,150 --> 00:09:32,850 those with hay fever any sinus pressure 192 00:09:38,300 --> 00:09:35,160 relief achieved would be countered by 193 00:09:41,780 --> 00:09:38,310 enhancing an already overactive immune 194 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:41,790 system this argument applies for all 195 00:09:47,390 --> 00:09:44,610 immunity boosting immunity hansung 196 00:09:49,700 --> 00:09:47,400 health claims for many people the cause 197 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:49,710 of their ill health is an overactive 198 00:09:54,620 --> 00:09:52,650 immune system that manifests into over 199 00:09:56,990 --> 00:09:54,630 80 different autoimmune diseases 200 00:09:59,000 --> 00:09:57,000 including celiac disease lupus 201 00:10:03,280 --> 00:09:59,010 rheumatoid arthritis Graves disease 202 00:10:08,180 --> 00:10:03,290 multiple sclerosis and type 1 diabetes 203 00:10:10,930 --> 00:10:08,190 number 5 smooth spirulina smoothie 204 00:10:14,210 --> 00:10:10,940 containing apple juice organic banana 205 00:10:17,030 --> 00:10:14,220 organic spirulina and ice that is 206 00:10:18,580 --> 00:10:17,040 claimed to be high in protein and a 207 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:18,590 great source of iron 208 00:10:25,310 --> 00:10:22,290 this drink of fruit juice and spirulina 209 00:10:28,580 --> 00:10:25,320 would contain virtually no protein and 210 00:10:30,740 --> 00:10:28,590 while spirulina is high in iron when 211 00:10:31,850 --> 00:10:30,750 compared to other foods on a per gram 212 00:10:34,340 --> 00:10:31,860 basis 213 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:34,350 the average serving in a smoothie is 214 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:38,010 only about 5 to 10 grams must also be 215 00:10:42,650 --> 00:10:40,290 said that the iron found in spirulina is 216 00:10:44,690 --> 00:10:42,660 non heme iron and far less readily 217 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:44,700 absorbed than the he mine 218 00:10:52,690 --> 00:10:50,130 found in meat number six aloe tonic and 219 00:10:57,110 --> 00:10:52,700 turmeric tonic that acclaimed to be both 220 00:10:59,660 --> 00:10:57,120 medicinal and alive well of course the 221 00:11:01,630 --> 00:10:59,670 terms medicinal and alive are being used 222 00:11:04,970 --> 00:11:01,640 as meaningless pseudo scientific 223 00:11:06,590 --> 00:11:04,980 descriptors however if we were to give 224 00:11:08,740 --> 00:11:06,600 the producers of these tonics the 225 00:11:12,500 --> 00:11:08,750 benefit of the doubt that they were both 226 00:11:14,390 --> 00:11:12,510 medicinal and alive I believe that they 227 00:11:15,830 --> 00:11:14,400 would attract far stronger regulation 228 00:11:18,050 --> 00:11:15,840 from the therapeutic drugs 229 00:11:22,190 --> 00:11:18,060 administration and Food Standards 230 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:22,200 Australia New Zealand finally the claim 231 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:24,930 that food is medicine is not only false 232 00:11:30,620 --> 00:11:27,450 but it does a disservice to both food 233 00:11:32,900 --> 00:11:30,630 and medicine although food is essential 234 00:11:35,930 --> 00:11:32,910 for life and a nutritious diet can 235 00:11:38,090 --> 00:11:35,940 reduce a risk of some diseases food does 236 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:38,100 not have the ability to treat diseases 237 00:11:44,420 --> 00:11:41,610 as medicine can similarly food is much 238 00:11:46,430 --> 00:11:44,430 more than the sum of its nutrients it is 239 00:11:48,860 --> 00:11:46,440 an integral part of our culture and 240 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:48,870 provides an important means of social 241 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:51,890 connectedness and enjoyment for humans I 242 00:11:57,560 --> 00:11:54,570 look forward to the end of the food is 243 00:12:01,010 --> 00:11:57,570 medicine era when cafe menus can return 244 00:12:03,530 --> 00:12:01,020 to describing food in terms of taste and 245 00:12:05,270 --> 00:12:03,540 eating experience and not by the virtues 246 00:12:09,359 --> 00:12:05,280 of its real or imagined health 247 00:12:14,470 --> 00:12:12,970 thanks everyone for listening general 248 00:12:16,179 --> 00:12:14,480 and evidence-based dietary 249 00:12:18,729 --> 00:12:16,189 recommendations for ensuring you receive 250 00:12:23,019 --> 00:12:18,739 all the nutrients you require for health 251 00:12:26,049 --> 00:12:23,029 can be found at WWE TLC ovae 252 00:12:28,809 --> 00:12:26,059 and if you have a specific dietary 253 00:12:31,889 --> 00:12:28,819 concerns I recommend you speak to your 254 00:12:51,579 --> 00:12:31,899 GP or an accredited practicing dietitian 255 00:12:52,449 --> 00:12:51,589 bye for now skeptics from the dawn of 256 00:12:55,179 --> 00:12:52,459 time 257 00:12:58,090 --> 00:12:55,189 one blood cast has unlocked the secrets 258 00:13:00,669 --> 00:12:58,100 of science and technology to enrich the 259 00:13:02,979 --> 00:13:00,679 lives of billions and now after a year 260 00:13:05,109 --> 00:13:02,989 where they've unlocked the Golden Age of 261 00:13:08,889 --> 00:13:05,119 knowledge they're about to hit warp 262 00:13:10,749 --> 00:13:08,899 speed and go stratospheric holed up on 263 00:13:13,210 --> 00:13:10,759 own our Ross and Carrie we don't make 264 00:13:15,369 --> 00:13:13,220 extraordinary claims we investigate them 265 00:13:17,769 --> 00:13:15,379 we go undercover with fringe religious 266 00:13:19,509 --> 00:13:17,779 groups investigate paranormal claims and 267 00:13:21,579 --> 00:13:19,519 we participate in pseudo scientific 268 00:13:23,739 --> 00:13:21,589 medical treatments and then report our 269 00:13:28,569 --> 00:13:23,749 findings to you and yes we've even 270 00:13:31,989 --> 00:13:28,579 investigated new episodes every month at 271 00:13:36,170 --> 00:13:31,999 maximum fun org oh no Ross and Carrie 272 00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:36,180 they show up so you don't have to 273 00:13:51,509 --> 00:13:48,750 and joining me now as he does from time 274 00:13:53,100 --> 00:13:51,519 to time almost an honorary reporter on 275 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:53,110 the skeptic zone it's Michael Marshall 276 00:13:57,990 --> 00:13:56,290 homage hi Richard hi always nice to be 277 00:14:00,569 --> 00:13:58,000 back up the shore always a pleasure to 278 00:14:02,460 --> 00:14:00,579 be Jeff wonderful about time we caught 279 00:14:05,340 --> 00:14:02,470 up it's been a little while and we do 280 00:14:08,069 --> 00:14:05,350 catch up quite regularly and every so 281 00:14:10,350 --> 00:14:08,079 often not for some years yet I'm very 282 00:14:12,930 --> 00:14:10,360 lucky enough to fly up to your part of 283 00:14:14,639 --> 00:14:12,940 the world and attend the one of the 284 00:14:17,250 --> 00:14:14,649 better conferences in the world which is 285 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:17,260 QED that's that's all going ahead or 286 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:21,010 full steam ahead yeah which is just 287 00:14:24,569 --> 00:14:22,690 literally I'd say a half an hour before 288 00:14:27,090 --> 00:14:24,579 you and I are talking right now I've 289 00:14:29,250 --> 00:14:27,100 just offered a long two and a half hour 290 00:14:30,990 --> 00:14:29,260 phone call with my fellow board members 291 00:14:32,699 --> 00:14:31,000 about what what's gonna happen in QD 292 00:14:35,550 --> 00:14:32,709 this year so even though it's only 293 00:14:38,009 --> 00:14:35,560 February and qts not until the 13th of 294 00:14:40,380 --> 00:14:38,019 October we are already starting those 295 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:40,390 those long deep intricate conversations 296 00:14:43,500 --> 00:14:42,130 about exactly what happens and where and 297 00:14:45,630 --> 00:14:43,510 when and with whom and all that kind of 298 00:14:47,610 --> 00:14:45,640 stuff so yeah we are we are back up to 299 00:14:49,769 --> 00:14:47,620 our necks in it all absolutely you have 300 00:14:51,540 --> 00:14:49,779 to be in in fact I can tell everybody 301 00:14:54,900 --> 00:14:51,550 that the Australian skeptics convention 302 00:14:56,639 --> 00:14:54,910 this year is at a similar time later on 303 00:14:59,160 --> 00:14:56,649 in the year and the people the 304 00:15:02,460 --> 00:14:59,170 organizers are already very much in in 305 00:15:04,170 --> 00:15:02,470 to processing all the information they 306 00:15:06,569 --> 00:15:04,180 need for that in starting work on 307 00:15:07,829 --> 00:15:06,579 getting people and events and organizing 308 00:15:08,540 --> 00:15:07,839 all that sort of stuff it's a long 309 00:15:12,329 --> 00:15:08,550 process 310 00:15:13,860 --> 00:15:12,339 yes but it's if I think the events where 311 00:15:15,870 --> 00:15:13,870 people have put that amount of time and 312 00:15:17,519 --> 00:15:15,880 effort and thought and consideration 313 00:15:19,170 --> 00:15:17,529 traveling those of us that really 314 00:15:21,870 --> 00:15:19,180 showing through you know you can see 315 00:15:23,009 --> 00:15:21,880 that time go in and whenever I've you 316 00:15:25,500 --> 00:15:23,019 know I've had the pleasure now of being 317 00:15:27,420 --> 00:15:25,510 at two of the Australian conferences and 318 00:15:29,069 --> 00:15:27,430 I'd say yeah absolutely that effort 319 00:15:32,639 --> 00:15:29,079 really does does pay off at the end 320 00:15:35,220 --> 00:15:32,649 completely I hope so and the feedback we 321 00:15:38,069 --> 00:15:35,230 generally get is people have a good time 322 00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:38,079 at our conventions and hopefully learn a 323 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:40,480 lot along the way but the reason I 324 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:42,010 thought I'd give you a buzz at the 325 00:15:45,630 --> 00:15:43,570 moment we were having a quick little 326 00:15:46,650 --> 00:15:45,640 chat the other day on just texting each 327 00:15:49,380 --> 00:15:46,660 other and you said there were some 328 00:15:50,519 --> 00:15:49,390 interesting new news if news can be new 329 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:50,529 I suppose it can be 330 00:15:58,590 --> 00:15:54,730 regarding homie homeopathic hospital is 331 00:16:03,989 --> 00:15:58,600 that right yeah so this is kind of the 332 00:16:06,300 --> 00:16:03,999 latest stage in our long ongoing quest 333 00:16:09,329 --> 00:16:06,310 here in the UK to to rid the the 334 00:16:11,309 --> 00:16:09,339 National Health Service of wastage on 335 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:11,319 homeopathy and I've obviously been on 336 00:16:14,999 --> 00:16:12,970 the show a number of times now talking 337 00:16:16,499 --> 00:16:15,009 about what's been going on there and way 338 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:16,509 back a couple years ago when we first 339 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:18,490 found out that there was five million 340 00:16:21,569 --> 00:16:20,170 pounds a year being spent on homeopathy 341 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:21,579 that was kind of our work that found 342 00:16:24,540 --> 00:16:23,170 that out and then we started mapping 343 00:16:25,799 --> 00:16:24,550 around the country to see where we 344 00:16:27,689 --> 00:16:25,809 challenged it to be started challenging 345 00:16:31,199 --> 00:16:27,699 it in the northwest and the Southwest 346 00:16:34,290 --> 00:16:31,209 and further of the UK and so one of the 347 00:16:36,119 --> 00:16:34,300 the last biggest strongholds of 348 00:16:38,549 --> 00:16:36,129 homeopathy left in the country was in 349 00:16:41,009 --> 00:16:38,559 London where there was this it used to 350 00:16:43,230 --> 00:16:41,019 be called the Royal London homeopathic 351 00:16:44,670 --> 00:16:43,240 Hospital and I think something like six 352 00:16:46,350 --> 00:16:44,680 or seven years ago it changes then to 353 00:16:49,679 --> 00:16:46,360 the Royal London Hospital for 354 00:16:52,499 --> 00:16:49,689 Integrative Medicine arguably to get rid 355 00:16:55,710 --> 00:16:52,509 of that that choral some h-word off the 356 00:16:58,230 --> 00:16:55,720 off the song to try and yeah maybe not 357 00:16:59,819 --> 00:16:58,240 put that from the centre anymore but we 358 00:17:02,069 --> 00:16:59,829 have this big building in the centre of 359 00:17:03,929 --> 00:17:02,079 London right next to Great Ormond Street 360 00:17:05,730 --> 00:17:03,939 Hospital which is a very respectable 361 00:17:07,110 --> 00:17:05,740 Children's Hospital basically shares a 362 00:17:09,059 --> 00:17:07,120 very similar grounds with the 363 00:17:11,250 --> 00:17:09,069 homeopathic hospitals or next to the 364 00:17:14,399 --> 00:17:11,260 hospital is caring for incredibly sick 365 00:17:16,740 --> 00:17:14,409 and ill children you got an NHS building 366 00:17:20,130 --> 00:17:16,750 that is dedicated to giving people stuff 367 00:17:21,630 --> 00:17:20,140 that doesn't work it was around about 368 00:17:22,980 --> 00:17:21,640 three million pounds a year as best we 369 00:17:25,230 --> 00:17:22,990 could tell was was being spent on 370 00:17:26,250 --> 00:17:25,240 homeopathy therein and that was 371 00:17:29,039 --> 00:17:26,260 something that we really wanted to 372 00:17:30,539 --> 00:17:29,049 challenge but even when we what 373 00:17:32,669 --> 00:17:30,549 astonished me really when we started 374 00:17:34,649 --> 00:17:32,679 looking into where homeopathy was funded 375 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:34,659 and I asked every single one and further 376 00:17:39,450 --> 00:17:37,570 the local health bodies that was 211 of 377 00:17:40,980 --> 00:17:39,460 them in the UK and I asked them all how 378 00:17:43,950 --> 00:17:40,990 much you spend on homeopathy every year 379 00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:43,960 and we found that the ones in London 380 00:17:47,340 --> 00:17:45,760 those may be a cost her about between 17 381 00:17:50,130 --> 00:17:47,350 and 30 one of them depending how we cut 382 00:17:52,770 --> 00:17:50,140 it they said we don't know how much 383 00:17:54,149 --> 00:17:52,780 money we spend on homeopathy yeah we 384 00:17:55,380 --> 00:17:54,159 have no way of knowing how much money 385 00:17:55,889 --> 00:17:55,390 we've spent on the open e this is the 386 00:17:57,330 --> 00:17:55,899 argument 387 00:17:59,399 --> 00:17:57,340 don't be singing on the show I think 388 00:18:01,799 --> 00:17:59,409 because what happens is there is a body 389 00:18:03,970 --> 00:18:01,809 in London that runs all of the hospitals 390 00:18:06,250 --> 00:18:03,980 and one of those hospitals 391 00:18:08,620 --> 00:18:06,260 so if you're a local NHS buddy you give 392 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:08,630 a bunch of money to the the trust that 393 00:18:13,149 --> 00:18:11,210 runs all those hospitals and according 394 00:18:14,860 --> 00:18:13,159 to those those NHS bodies they didn't 395 00:18:16,450 --> 00:18:14,870 find out from that trust how much of 396 00:18:19,210 --> 00:18:16,460 them when he went off to to the 397 00:18:20,350 --> 00:18:19,220 homeopathic hospital and so we asked the 398 00:18:23,019 --> 00:18:20,360 trust how much he's spending at all 399 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:23,029 homeopathy they said we don't know and 400 00:18:27,159 --> 00:18:24,610 we've no way of knowing 401 00:18:28,539 --> 00:18:27,169 and so one actually turned out to be 402 00:18:29,769 --> 00:18:28,549 happening it took you many years of 403 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:29,779 digging but we got to the bottom of what 404 00:18:34,180 --> 00:18:30,890 was happening at this homeopathic 405 00:18:37,210 --> 00:18:34,190 Hospital which is when a patient walk 406 00:18:38,710 --> 00:18:37,220 through the door you'd expect there will 407 00:18:40,779 --> 00:18:38,720 be a record kept of every single 408 00:18:42,490 --> 00:18:40,789 treatment that patient got you know that 409 00:18:44,019 --> 00:18:42,500 sounds like a standard practice for a 410 00:18:45,549 --> 00:18:44,029 hospital if you couldn't ER because you 411 00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:45,559 have cancer you don't see your 412 00:18:48,639 --> 00:18:47,360 oncologist you go to radiotherapy go to 413 00:18:50,649 --> 00:18:48,649 chemotherapy somewhere down the line 414 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:50,659 people are going to take note of what 415 00:18:54,399 --> 00:18:52,010 drugs you were given what treatments you 416 00:18:55,659 --> 00:18:54,409 were given and and where he went but 417 00:18:57,580 --> 00:18:55,669 that wasn't the case with the 418 00:18:59,409 --> 00:18:57,590 homeopathic hospital they didn't take 419 00:19:02,409 --> 00:18:59,419 note of what treatment you got just what 420 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:02,419 ailment you had so if you went to your 421 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:04,610 local doctor and said I've got terrible 422 00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:06,770 insomnia I've tried everything and I 423 00:19:10,899 --> 00:19:10,130 absolutely insist you give me a access 424 00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:10,909 to complementary and alternative 425 00:19:14,649 --> 00:19:13,370 medicine for my insomnia those little 426 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:14,659 known that said because this was on the 427 00:19:17,950 --> 00:19:16,010 list of things that you could be 428 00:19:19,539 --> 00:19:17,960 referred to the hospital for the doctor 429 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:19,549 have to refer you in those areas and 430 00:19:23,740 --> 00:19:21,770 then when you walked into that hospital 431 00:19:25,450 --> 00:19:23,750 has been somnium patient you were an 432 00:19:27,370 --> 00:19:25,460 insomnia patient in every one of those 433 00:19:29,380 --> 00:19:27,380 records regardless of what service 434 00:19:31,380 --> 00:19:29,390 you've got so you might get confident 435 00:19:33,909 --> 00:19:31,390 company of burial therapy you might get 436 00:19:36,789 --> 00:19:33,919 reflexology you might get homeopathy but 437 00:19:38,260 --> 00:19:36,799 they didn't keep track of that and that 438 00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:38,270 was quite and they would say well it's 439 00:19:43,899 --> 00:19:40,370 very own rooms on the rest of us to have 440 00:19:45,370 --> 00:19:43,909 that level of detailed bureaucracy to 441 00:19:48,700 --> 00:19:45,380 what we do that's not how we work yeah 442 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:48,710 and maybe that's why they didn't didn't 443 00:19:52,450 --> 00:19:50,090 take notes maybe they found it more 444 00:19:55,450 --> 00:19:52,460 onerous than say the oncology department 445 00:19:57,070 --> 00:19:55,460 would in terms of keeping track of what 446 00:19:59,019 --> 00:19:57,080 substances they give their patients 447 00:19:59,830 --> 00:19:59,029 maybe they didn't have the time 448 00:20:02,529 --> 00:19:59,840 resources 449 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:02,539 inclusion or expertise to keep track of 450 00:20:07,210 --> 00:20:04,970 those things but one would argue it had 451 00:20:09,039 --> 00:20:07,220 the effect of effectively masking how 452 00:20:10,889 --> 00:20:09,049 much money was going on homeopathy 453 00:20:13,690 --> 00:20:10,899 because it meant that if you were 454 00:20:15,340 --> 00:20:13,700 Islington CCG Islington being an area of 455 00:20:15,789 --> 00:20:15,350 London the CCGs the nobody health body 456 00:20:17,070 --> 00:20:15,799 so 457 00:20:19,290 --> 00:20:17,080 Islington 458 00:20:21,810 --> 00:20:19,300 in London and you send your patient off 459 00:20:24,180 --> 00:20:21,820 to the to the hospital for an insomnia 460 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:24,190 treatment and that patient gets 461 00:20:29,220 --> 00:20:26,290 homeopathy but their records don't say 462 00:20:31,140 --> 00:20:29,230 they got homeopathy that you can't ask 463 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:31,150 the hospital how many my patients got 464 00:20:34,050 --> 00:20:33,250 homie up hmm so you can't then say well 465 00:20:35,550 --> 00:20:34,060 this patient over here I've got 466 00:20:37,530 --> 00:20:35,560 homeopathy over there 467 00:20:41,220 --> 00:20:37,540 so there's effectively became a black 468 00:20:43,830 --> 00:20:41,230 box which if you were invested in 469 00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:43,840 keeping homeopathy on the NHS that's 470 00:20:47,250 --> 00:20:45,130 that black box is actually quite useful 471 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:47,260 to you whether it's intentional or not I 472 00:20:51,420 --> 00:20:49,570 mean I'm sure you're not overly 473 00:20:53,490 --> 00:20:51,430 disappointed that there's not a lot of 474 00:20:55,980 --> 00:20:53,500 transparency there so as I skeptic 475 00:20:58,050 --> 00:20:55,990 investigator I was actually pretty 476 00:21:00,660 --> 00:20:58,060 shocked that there was no way that 477 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:00,670 anybody involved in the NHS in London 478 00:21:05,370 --> 00:21:03,850 could accurately say or even take a wild 479 00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:05,380 stab at how much when he was actually 480 00:21:10,170 --> 00:21:07,360 being spent on homeopathy so this to me 481 00:21:12,510 --> 00:21:10,180 was a bit of a scandal yeah and it's not 482 00:21:14,250 --> 00:21:12,520 the only sort of scandalous element that 483 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:14,260 we found hurt or surprising element we 484 00:21:18,180 --> 00:21:16,090 found this because the other thing we 485 00:21:19,710 --> 00:21:18,190 found when we were looking into every 486 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:19,720 one of these different health bodies in 487 00:21:24,540 --> 00:21:22,090 the in London there was that they all 488 00:21:26,190 --> 00:21:24,550 had a policy that said you may not give 489 00:21:27,390 --> 00:21:26,200 homeopathy so when you look at the 490 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:27,400 hospital they're all funded by these 491 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:28,570 different health bodies and there was a 492 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:30,250 attachment at funding that says you 493 00:21:34,620 --> 00:21:32,490 can't spend this money on homeopathy 494 00:21:36,540 --> 00:21:34,630 because he all had what was called an 495 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:36,550 individual funding request requirement 496 00:21:41,070 --> 00:21:38,530 right which is basically if I'm a 497 00:21:43,580 --> 00:21:41,080 patient in Islington one of the areas in 498 00:21:45,450 --> 00:21:43,590 London and I won't call me off with me 499 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:45,460 because they have a policy of an 500 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:47,170 individual funding request you basically 501 00:21:51,300 --> 00:21:49,090 have to get your GP to sit in front of a 502 00:21:52,890 --> 00:21:51,310 panel of other GPS and convince those 503 00:21:55,650 --> 00:21:52,900 GPS that homeopathy is the right 504 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:55,660 treatment for you and even if your GP is 505 00:22:00,140 --> 00:21:57,250 a massive fan of homeopathy the chances 506 00:22:02,730 --> 00:22:00,150 are the the rest of the panel aren't so 507 00:22:04,050 --> 00:22:02,740 effectively if you've got an IFR it 508 00:22:06,540 --> 00:22:04,060 basically means it's almost impossible 509 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:06,550 and very very difficult to get something 510 00:22:09,870 --> 00:22:08,290 like homeopathy funded because there is 511 00:22:12,540 --> 00:22:09,880 no good evidence that homeopathy works 512 00:22:14,010 --> 00:22:12,550 and because the all the bodies around 513 00:22:17,310 --> 00:22:14,020 London were saying that there weren't 514 00:22:18,450 --> 00:22:17,320 any successful IFRS for homeopathy they 515 00:22:20,370 --> 00:22:18,460 were saying there shouldn't be any 516 00:22:22,020 --> 00:22:20,380 funding formula that also theoretically 517 00:22:24,690 --> 00:22:22,030 there should have been no homeopathy 518 00:22:26,130 --> 00:22:24,700 going on in that building otherwise any 519 00:22:27,270 --> 00:22:26,140 anything that was going on was against 520 00:22:30,030 --> 00:22:27,280 that the policy against the law 521 00:22:30,930 --> 00:22:30,040 effectively Wow but we knew there was 522 00:22:32,550 --> 00:22:30,940 one we only going on that 523 00:22:35,220 --> 00:22:32,560 building because it used be called the 524 00:22:37,170 --> 00:22:35,230 homeopathic hospital and they also had 525 00:22:39,330 --> 00:22:37,180 the clinical director of the entire 526 00:22:41,820 --> 00:22:39,340 building is a chap called dr. Peter 527 00:22:44,010 --> 00:22:41,830 Fisher who is a homeopath who was the 528 00:22:44,970 --> 00:22:44,020 Queen's holy master no less he would go 529 00:22:46,620 --> 00:22:44,980 on TV 530 00:22:48,060 --> 00:22:46,630 whenever homeopathy came up in the news 531 00:22:50,910 --> 00:22:48,070 or was under threat in the news and say 532 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:50,920 I give patients of the NHS homeopathy in 533 00:22:55,650 --> 00:22:52,690 that hospital yeah so we knew them as 534 00:22:58,290 --> 00:22:55,660 home that was homeopathy going on so 535 00:23:00,270 --> 00:22:58,300 that began that was that was a question 536 00:23:01,380 --> 00:23:00,280 that we had to start digging into we 537 00:23:04,650 --> 00:23:01,390 spent a little bit time digging into 538 00:23:07,350 --> 00:23:04,660 that and then something surprising and 539 00:23:09,780 --> 00:23:07,360 very fortuitous happened because we have 540 00:23:11,700 --> 00:23:09,790 an MP here in the UK called um David to 541 00:23:14,490 --> 00:23:11,710 Zdenek MP had done a few norm of David 542 00:23:17,790 --> 00:23:14,500 Tua genic the name escapes the bid carry 543 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:17,800 on yeah so he's a big advocate of 544 00:23:21,210 --> 00:23:19,570 alternative medicine a big advocate of 545 00:23:24,420 --> 00:23:21,220 homeopathy and various other things he 546 00:23:26,790 --> 00:23:24,430 once said in Parliament that surgeons 547 00:23:28,770 --> 00:23:26,800 refused to operate whenever there's a 548 00:23:30,270 --> 00:23:28,780 full moon because blood won't clot when 549 00:23:32,940 --> 00:23:30,280 there's a full moon the falling stops 550 00:23:36,090 --> 00:23:32,950 your blood clotting good everybody knows 551 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:36,100 that absolutely so what happened was in 552 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:36,730 Parliament 553 00:23:40,470 --> 00:23:38,170 David yudenich got up to defend 554 00:23:43,020 --> 00:23:40,480 homeopathy and to promote it as he often 555 00:23:45,450 --> 00:23:43,030 does and he said that homeopathy in 556 00:23:47,610 --> 00:23:45,460 London was under threat because there 557 00:23:49,470 --> 00:23:47,620 was that all of the the bodies around 558 00:23:50,910 --> 00:23:49,480 London had an agreement with the 559 00:23:53,460 --> 00:23:50,920 hospital which he called a list of 560 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:53,470 pre-agreed exceptionalities that meant 561 00:23:56,430 --> 00:23:55,210 that you didn't have to look at any of 562 00:23:58,380 --> 00:23:56,440 the policies that says don't give 563 00:24:00,390 --> 00:23:58,390 homeopathy and so we were very 564 00:24:01,740 --> 00:24:00,400 interested we looked at all the legal 565 00:24:02,850 --> 00:24:01,750 documentation about funding homeopathy 566 00:24:05,190 --> 00:24:02,860 and we've never seen the words 567 00:24:09,030 --> 00:24:05,200 pre-agreed exceptionalities in there and 568 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:09,040 so we asked the the local bodies what 569 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:10,930 that was so we asked I asked every one 570 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:12,970 of the local NHS funders in London 571 00:24:16,230 --> 00:24:14,410 what's this list of pre-agreed 572 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:16,240 exceptions to your policy that you've 573 00:24:19,650 --> 00:24:17,890 got with the homeopathic hospital and 574 00:24:20,010 --> 00:24:19,660 they said we've never heard of this 575 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:20,020 before 576 00:24:23,610 --> 00:24:22,090 no idea what you're talking about says 577 00:24:25,830 --> 00:24:23,620 oh wow okay so Trinity has actually 578 00:24:28,590 --> 00:24:25,840 given us a an interesting angle here and 579 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:28,600 so we've successfully convinced one of 580 00:24:34,590 --> 00:24:32,410 the areas in London Camden - I've been 581 00:24:36,660 --> 00:24:34,600 talking to Camden for years on this one 582 00:24:38,940 --> 00:24:36,670 point and they said right actually we're 583 00:24:40,770 --> 00:24:38,950 concerned that our policies might not be 584 00:24:42,180 --> 00:24:40,780 followed here so we're gonna have an 585 00:24:44,190 --> 00:24:42,190 audit of what's happening in their 586 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:44,200 Hospital which means whenever we send a 587 00:24:45,990 --> 00:24:44,650 patient 588 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:46,000 Hospital of the cost of a fortnight to 589 00:24:50,130 --> 00:24:48,610 think it was we track that patient into 590 00:24:52,290 --> 00:24:50,140 every different consultation they going 591 00:24:54,270 --> 00:24:52,300 to we make sure there's an awed taken of 592 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:54,280 every single treatment they get and it 593 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:55,570 was at that point that they were able to 594 00:24:58,770 --> 00:24:56,890 then figure out how many of their 595 00:25:00,090 --> 00:24:58,780 patients were getting homeopathy and at 596 00:25:02,190 --> 00:25:00,100 that point they're able to say right and 597 00:25:04,740 --> 00:25:02,200 now we stopped this because you are not 598 00:25:06,570 --> 00:25:04,750 allowed to give these patients and what 599 00:25:09,810 --> 00:25:06,580 they said is they found widespread 600 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:09,820 breach of contract by the the London 601 00:25:14,310 --> 00:25:12,010 hospital when it came to homeopathy and 602 00:25:15,300 --> 00:25:14,320 several other things too and it was 603 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:15,310 interesting because one of things they 604 00:25:19,860 --> 00:25:16,930 were doing the hospital it turned out 605 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:19,870 was you've got this list of things you 606 00:25:24,900 --> 00:25:22,210 are not allowed to give patients this 607 00:25:26,340 --> 00:25:24,910 this this procedures of limited clinical 608 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:26,350 excellence this big list of things that 609 00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:28,450 we says we that the the bodies have 610 00:25:32,460 --> 00:25:30,640 decided did not have sufficient evidence 611 00:25:34,020 --> 00:25:32,470 to be worth spending money on and the 612 00:25:35,370 --> 00:25:34,030 hospital was looking at this list for 613 00:25:36,660 --> 00:25:35,380 the first treatment that they ever gave 614 00:25:38,790 --> 00:25:36,670 that patient when they walked in at all 615 00:25:40,620 --> 00:25:38,800 but not for any subsequent treatments 616 00:25:41,910 --> 00:25:40,630 they were saying well this insomnia 617 00:25:43,590 --> 00:25:41,920 patient came in and they went for a 618 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:43,600 cognitive behavioral therapy is that on 619 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:43,930 the list 620 00:25:47,900 --> 00:25:46,210 no brilliant and then from there they 621 00:25:49,650 --> 00:25:47,910 went to homeopathy acupuncture 622 00:25:50,700 --> 00:25:49,660 traditional Chinese medicine but we 623 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:50,710 don't need to check less because we've 624 00:25:55,260 --> 00:25:52,810 already checked it and so that's what 625 00:25:58,860 --> 00:25:55,270 was going on there and so we've now seen 626 00:26:00,690 --> 00:25:58,870 the documentation after they sawed it 627 00:26:02,190 --> 00:26:00,700 where the the conversation is happening 628 00:26:04,020 --> 00:26:02,200 between Camden who then started 629 00:26:05,700 --> 00:26:04,030 representing all of London to say this 630 00:26:07,590 --> 00:26:05,710 is something that is not just common to 631 00:26:09,570 --> 00:26:07,600 us but common to all the London CCGs a 632 00:26:13,050 --> 00:26:09,580 lot of them health buddies that said 633 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:13,060 because you are widespread in widespread 634 00:26:18,150 --> 00:26:16,210 breach of contract you right now are no 635 00:26:20,430 --> 00:26:18,160 longer allowed to give a single patient 636 00:26:22,110 --> 00:26:20,440 homeopathy if you think you're going to 637 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:22,120 give a patient homeopathy you have to 638 00:26:27,810 --> 00:26:24,610 tell us first so we can tell you know at 639 00:26:31,050 --> 00:26:27,820 this point no longer does NHS homeopathy 640 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:31,060 and that's where we now are is that in 641 00:26:36,210 --> 00:26:33,490 London this decision should have just 642 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:36,220 ended homeopathy on the NHS in all of 643 00:26:39,090 --> 00:26:37,810 London now we're all gonna watch 644 00:26:41,220 --> 00:26:39,100 carefully to make sure that this 645 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:41,230 actually pans out correctly but just by 646 00:26:46,770 --> 00:26:44,250 following all this twisting turning 647 00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:46,780 interesting boring complex legal their 648 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:48,370 argument over the course of about four 649 00:26:52,110 --> 00:26:49,930 or five years through all these policies 650 00:26:54,780 --> 00:26:52,120 we think we've got now to position where 651 00:26:57,300 --> 00:26:54,790 the NHS has stopped doing homeopathy in 652 00:26:58,350 --> 00:26:57,310 all of London and that pretty much 653 00:26:59,880 --> 00:26:58,360 eradicate it in 654 00:27:01,890 --> 00:26:59,890 the entire of England apart from a 655 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:01,900 little bit left in Bristol which we're 656 00:27:08,490 --> 00:27:04,890 working on really so this was a long and 657 00:27:10,710 --> 00:27:08,500 slightly tricky combat pretty story to 658 00:27:12,210 --> 00:27:10,720 follow but that outcome is quite a 659 00:27:14,910 --> 00:27:12,220 significant skeptical win I think I'd 660 00:27:16,860 --> 00:27:14,920 say that's just staggering news Marcia 661 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:16,870 it's really heartening to hear that it's 662 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:18,970 such a long and winding road to get to 663 00:27:23,460 --> 00:27:21,090 these results in a lot of work and 664 00:27:25,110 --> 00:27:23,470 incidentally talking about homeopathic 665 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:25,120 costs but the homeopathic Hospital in 666 00:27:30,780 --> 00:27:26,890 the Queen's homeopathy and all that and 667 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:30,790 I just sent you a picture of the cover 668 00:27:37,130 --> 00:27:33,730 of a magazine called heal the whole 669 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:37,140 ethic News Review price one shilling 670 00:27:42,890 --> 00:27:38,770 from jail 671 00:27:45,390 --> 00:27:42,900 yes January February let me have looked 672 00:27:47,790 --> 00:27:45,400 1956 and on the cover is a picture of a 673 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:47,800 very young Queen Elizabeth and the 674 00:27:53,340 --> 00:27:50,770 caption says the Queen's visit to the 675 00:27:57,870 --> 00:27:53,350 hospital Her Majesty presenting a prize 676 00:28:02,190 --> 00:27:57,880 to nurse Bezdek a member of he'll h e al 677 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:02,200 and then if we go few pages in out cover 678 00:28:05,790 --> 00:28:03,970 photograph the Queen's visit to the 679 00:28:07,850 --> 00:28:05,800 hospital talking about the Queen handing 680 00:28:11,340 --> 00:28:07,860 over a prize on her visit to the royal 681 00:28:14,310 --> 00:28:11,350 homeopathic hospital in on Thursday 682 00:28:15,410 --> 00:28:14,320 November the tenth nineteen fifty five 683 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:15,420 so there you go 684 00:28:20,700 --> 00:28:18,490 wow that's really interesting so yeah 685 00:28:22,500 --> 00:28:20,710 it's not just Prince Charles that was I 686 00:28:25,550 --> 00:28:22,510 was incredibly keen on homeopathy 687 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:25,560 clearly it just goes to show just how 688 00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:28,090 accepted it was in many places back 689 00:28:32,220 --> 00:28:29,200 there it's one of the reasons that we 690 00:28:35,130 --> 00:28:32,230 have the Royal homeopathic hospital was 691 00:28:36,330 --> 00:28:35,140 because it was sanctioned by the Royals 692 00:28:39,510 --> 00:28:36,340 in that way 693 00:28:42,740 --> 00:28:39,520 yeah that's an amazing picture where did 694 00:28:45,780 --> 00:28:42,750 you find that well many years ago my 695 00:28:48,210 --> 00:28:45,790 great-uncle died and when we were 696 00:28:51,300 --> 00:28:48,220 clearing up his things I discovered a 697 00:28:54,930 --> 00:28:51,310 box of magazines he subscribed to in the 698 00:28:57,540 --> 00:28:54,940 50s including this one called heal and 699 00:28:59,580 --> 00:28:57,550 I've got many issues of add I'm happy to 700 00:29:02,550 --> 00:28:59,590 to share those with you and they're all 701 00:29:05,790 --> 00:29:02,560 from the yeah the the early to the mid 702 00:29:07,290 --> 00:29:05,800 50s really that's that's really 703 00:29:11,370 --> 00:29:07,300 interesting in and you've got there a 704 00:29:13,500 --> 00:29:11,380 little Nelson's on the back of the the 705 00:29:14,910 --> 00:29:13,510 magazine as well so the Nelsons they're 706 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:14,920 on Duke Street Grosvenor Square I've 707 00:29:19,290 --> 00:29:16,690 been in that nailed that very Nelsons 708 00:29:20,820 --> 00:29:19,300 and they offered me something call me 709 00:29:23,310 --> 00:29:20,830 Pathak has taught me getting malaria so 710 00:29:25,050 --> 00:29:23,320 uh yeah thing how times change and how 711 00:29:26,910 --> 00:29:25,060 they don't change in the slightest wow 712 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:26,920 that's amazing so I'm just looking at 713 00:29:30,270 --> 00:29:28,690 the back cover and it says by 714 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:30,280 appointment to Her Majesty the Queen 715 00:29:34,170 --> 00:29:31,090 there you go 716 00:29:36,780 --> 00:29:34,180 yeah no it's absolutely true yeah wow 717 00:29:39,420 --> 00:29:36,790 that's really interesting all right yes 718 00:29:41,610 --> 00:29:39,430 I'll arrange to send you all the 719 00:29:44,370 --> 00:29:41,620 digitized scans of those interesting 720 00:29:46,890 --> 00:29:44,380 magazines from well sixty years ago 721 00:29:49,590 --> 00:29:46,900 Marshall great work how can people keep 722 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:49,600 up with a good thinking well best 723 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:51,490 basically if you go to good thinking 724 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:53,770 Society org you can see all our work 725 00:29:56,910 --> 00:29:55,570 there and subscribe to our newsletter or 726 00:29:59,550 --> 00:29:56,920 you can follow us on Twitter which is a 727 00:30:01,620 --> 00:29:59,560 good thinking sock and we don't tweet 728 00:30:04,230 --> 00:30:01,630 very often we're too busy as it turns 729 00:30:07,140 --> 00:30:04,240 out looking through the boring twists 730 00:30:09,630 --> 00:30:07,150 and terms of policy documentation but 731 00:30:11,820 --> 00:30:09,640 when we do get a win lettuce we do try 732 00:30:13,620 --> 00:30:11,830 and try and tell people about it great 733 00:30:15,390 --> 00:30:13,630 work that's a that's the thing folks 734 00:30:17,370 --> 00:30:15,400 have a visit to the good thinking 735 00:30:18,990 --> 00:30:17,380 Society we run promotions for good 736 00:30:20,730 --> 00:30:19,000 thinking quite regularly here on the 737 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:20,740 skeptic zone because I think it's a good 738 00:30:24,090 --> 00:30:23,050 thing to do once again Michael Marshall 739 00:30:26,100 --> 00:30:24,100 thank you very much 740 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:26,110 thanks so much Richard thank you 741 00:30:42,370 --> 00:30:39,250 hey Richard 742 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:42,380 oh hi Trish Wow would you like a coffee 743 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:43,850 yeah thanks what are you working on I'm 744 00:30:48,250 --> 00:30:46,010 trying to come up with a new promo to 745 00:30:50,889 --> 00:30:48,260 play on the skeptic zone who's it for 746 00:30:53,470 --> 00:30:50,899 the good thinking Society in the UK you 747 00:30:55,389 --> 00:30:53,480 know Michael Marshall Simon Singh Laura 748 00:30:57,039 --> 00:30:55,399 Thomas in the background oh yeah I know 749 00:30:59,340 --> 00:30:57,049 them they've been doing some great work 750 00:31:02,230 --> 00:30:59,350 investigating veterinary homeopathy 751 00:31:04,570 --> 00:31:02,240 veterinary homeopathy what you sugarpill 752 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:04,580 this freaked out I know right and also 753 00:31:07,750 --> 00:31:05,690 they're looking at some of the dodgy 754 00:31:09,820 --> 00:31:07,760 medical advice given by UK chiropractors 755 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:09,830 I'll mention all that in the promo now 756 00:31:16,810 --> 00:31:13,730 their website is good thinking society 757 00:31:18,490 --> 00:31:16,820 forum and they've recently been 758 00:31:21,100 --> 00:31:18,500 reporting on the resurgence of faith 759 00:31:22,630 --> 00:31:21,110 healer peter Popoff you know right okay 760 00:31:29,279 --> 00:31:22,640 look thanks to that it gives me 761 00:31:37,990 --> 00:31:34,480 his main art spooky action at the 762 00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:41,480 the excitement is palpable capable 763 00:31:47,900 --> 00:31:46,080 optimal suboptimal obvious unleash 764 00:31:49,310 --> 00:31:47,910 in other words that I don't understand 765 00:31:51,260 --> 00:31:49,320 that it based in a foreign language or 766 00:31:53,330 --> 00:31:51,270 it's not English may not hear and of 767 00:31:56,570 --> 00:31:53,340 course the mighty skeptics in the pub 768 00:31:58,280 --> 00:31:56,580 there's a hush falling across the room 769 00:31:59,540 --> 00:31:58,290 now because there's only like two people 770 00:32:01,940 --> 00:31:59,550 in it really that's why it's so quite 771 00:32:04,070 --> 00:32:01,950 and we just want us over there dr. 772 00:32:06,799 --> 00:32:04,080 Richard Saunders as you all know there 773 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:06,809 he's a doctor of something and Lara's 774 00:32:11,620 --> 00:32:08,490 there they're discussing heavy stuff 775 00:32:14,750 --> 00:32:11,630 this is this is how you make a critical 776 00:32:15,950 --> 00:32:14,760 thinking sceptical quiz night I'll be 777 00:32:18,970 --> 00:32:15,960 hosting one of the sections of course 778 00:32:22,250 --> 00:32:18,980 mine will all be on the mastery of 779 00:32:23,780 --> 00:32:22,260 various anomalies I don't want to use 780 00:32:25,610 --> 00:32:23,790 conspiracy theories because I consider 781 00:32:27,799 --> 00:32:25,620 that to be a bit of a a negative term 782 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:27,809 what mine will all be about anomalies 783 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:31,010 such as the Kennedy assassination 784 00:32:37,790 --> 00:32:35,130 various research projects ESP a few 785 00:32:39,530 --> 00:32:37,800 other things will all be in my section 786 00:32:41,090 --> 00:32:39,540 but there's actually people who are 787 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:41,100 asking questions that know what they're 788 00:32:44,450 --> 00:32:43,050 run about and who else is asking 789 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:44,460 questions tonight Richard good evening 790 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:48,450 good evening I you are what credit what 791 00:32:52,340 --> 00:32:50,130 credible people have we got on the show 792 00:32:54,140 --> 00:32:52,350 the only credible person is Lara she's 793 00:32:56,510 --> 00:32:54,150 just sitting over there how are you 794 00:32:57,549 --> 00:32:56,520 you're pretty confident is there a theme 795 00:33:01,700 --> 00:32:57,559 running through any of your questions 796 00:33:03,230 --> 00:33:01,710 I'm not faking no okay right yeah 797 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:03,240 there's mine and mine are all like wacky 798 00:33:07,430 --> 00:33:05,250 stuff I love it he stuffed her out I 799 00:33:09,410 --> 00:33:07,440 think and of course in one section that 800 00:33:11,450 --> 00:33:09,420 you won't be able to play at home on the 801 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:11,460 podcast is the guess all the famous 802 00:33:14,660 --> 00:33:12,690 faces but I guess you could always put 803 00:33:17,810 --> 00:33:14,670 that up on the website couldn't you yeah 804 00:33:20,450 --> 00:33:17,820 I could do that why not we have nine 805 00:33:22,190 --> 00:33:20,460 famous faces more or less involved with 806 00:33:23,299 --> 00:33:22,200 skepticism and perhaps you should pop 807 00:33:24,830 --> 00:33:23,309 that up on your Facebook group or 808 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:24,840 something to see if people can get it oh 809 00:33:29,950 --> 00:33:27,690 I think I think a lot of people would 810 00:33:31,930 --> 00:33:29,960 recognize most of the basis okay 811 00:33:33,789 --> 00:33:31,940 well anyway hush again falls on the room 812 00:33:35,529 --> 00:33:33,799 as we prepare for what what are we 813 00:33:38,409 --> 00:33:35,539 calling it tonight is the skeptical quiz 814 00:33:40,539 --> 00:33:38,419 oblivion it's a trivia night took the 815 00:33:42,340 --> 00:33:40,549 mouse to come up with that one we we we 816 00:33:44,350 --> 00:33:42,350 have we had that in front of a group we 817 00:33:46,919 --> 00:33:44,360 workshopped it we the people loved that 818 00:33:51,700 --> 00:33:46,929 name so we kept it here we go question 819 00:33:53,950 --> 00:33:51,710 number one the skeptic which timmmmm is 820 00:33:56,500 --> 00:33:53,960 the current editor of the Journal of the 821 00:34:00,399 --> 00:33:56,510 study skeptics was first published in 822 00:34:03,250 --> 00:34:00,409 the what year of the 1980s question 823 00:34:05,260 --> 00:34:03,260 number two which famous Australian 824 00:34:09,490 --> 00:34:05,270 racing car driver won the Australian 825 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:09,500 skeptics bent spoon award in 1986 for 826 00:34:16,359 --> 00:34:12,290 the energy polarizer the device based 827 00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:16,369 based on the war on energy question 828 00:34:22,829 --> 00:34:17,200 number three 829 00:34:27,839 --> 00:34:22,839 where would you find the Carl Sagan 830 00:34:31,089 --> 00:34:27,849 memorial station question number four 831 00:34:34,169 --> 00:34:31,099 the Nazca lines are a series of large 832 00:34:36,430 --> 00:34:34,179 ancient geoglyphs of Nazca desert 833 00:34:39,070 --> 00:34:36,440 monkeys and spiders in shape like that 834 00:34:42,399 --> 00:34:39,080 they are thought to by some to be 835 00:34:54,010 --> 00:34:42,409 landing runways to UFOs in what country 836 00:35:05,260 --> 00:34:56,119 probably pronouncing it wrong but anyway 837 00:35:14,290 --> 00:35:08,870 the Nazca lines thought to be ancient 838 00:35:17,690 --> 00:35:14,300 runways for a traverse what country 839 00:35:20,900 --> 00:35:17,700 question number five the paranormal 840 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:20,910 claim of psychometry involves gaining 841 00:35:28,910 --> 00:35:25,490 information about people by doing what 842 00:35:33,980 --> 00:35:28,920 question number six and it's a multiple 843 00:35:36,290 --> 00:35:33,990 choice which of the following is not a 844 00:35:38,740 --> 00:35:36,300 logical fallacy nor which of the 845 00:35:42,650 --> 00:35:38,750 following is not a logical fallacy 846 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:42,660 appeal to ignorance argument from 847 00:35:50,900 --> 00:35:47,130 Authority argument from evidence a straw 848 00:35:58,220 --> 00:35:55,400 okay next question Jenny was raining but 849 00:36:01,849 --> 00:35:58,230 it's a bit about James and James with 850 00:36:05,740 --> 00:36:01,859 you Randy went on tour with which famous 851 00:36:09,499 --> 00:36:05,750 rock star in the 1970s 852 00:36:12,620 --> 00:36:09,509 serial murders of people who studied 853 00:36:15,559 --> 00:36:12,630 what strange phenomena Siri ologists 854 00:36:21,700 --> 00:36:15,569 people who study what strange phenomena 855 00:36:31,099 --> 00:36:21,710 still that possibility seemingly e R P 856 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:31,109 Hill emoji is TS serialization is the 857 00:36:35,660 --> 00:36:33,930 Bermuda Triangle is a giant triangle of 858 00:36:53,269 --> 00:36:35,670 the east coast of the United States with 859 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:53,279 corners and what in 1973 Riga appeared 860 00:37:01,480 --> 00:36:55,890 on what TV program in the United States 861 00:37:04,180 --> 00:37:01,490 only to fail at every psychic pudding 862 00:37:07,599 --> 00:37:04,190 question number live 863 00:37:11,049 --> 00:37:07,609 the Bridey Murphy case input what 864 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:11,059 supernatural plane the briny Murphy case 865 00:37:14,890 --> 00:37:13,490 involves what supernatural claim is a 866 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:14,900 PSP 867 00:37:31,029 --> 00:37:18,170 talking to the dead reincarnation or 868 00:37:37,599 --> 00:37:31,039 witchcraft one of those number 12 in the 869 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:37,609 movie Ghostbusters in 1984 what classic 870 00:37:43,630 --> 00:37:41,210 ESP test in Peter Hickman and Bill 871 00:37:46,539 --> 00:37:43,640 Murray performer these students in the 872 00:37:48,339 --> 00:37:46,549 1984 Ghostbusters the original what 873 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:48,349 pricing here speed test 874 00:37:55,580 --> 00:37:51,530 did Peter Venkman Bill Murray perform on 875 00:37:55,590 --> 00:38:39,980 [Music] 876 00:38:48,359 --> 00:38:43,800 according to new age references how many 877 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:48,369 the chakras are their bodies according 878 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:50,890 to most newest references how many 879 00:39:00,540 --> 00:38:55,690 chapters or chakras are there question 880 00:39:04,050 --> 00:39:00,550 16 area 51 ladies which state of the 881 00:39:08,940 --> 00:39:04,060 United States and area 51 we build tree 882 00:39:13,099 --> 00:39:08,950 base what else lies within which state 883 00:39:17,070 --> 00:39:13,109 of the United States question 17 884 00:39:20,970 --> 00:39:17,080 question 17 what did the initials J are 885 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:20,980 the F stand for Jamie are EF 40mm as it 886 00:39:27,930 --> 00:39:24,130 stands what do the initials J are the 887 00:39:30,270 --> 00:39:27,940 Erin Stan book in The Skeptical will 888 00:39:33,150 --> 00:39:30,280 question make me who convinced 889 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:33,160 nessam to turn the Voyager 1 space probe 890 00:39:48,059 --> 00:39:35,650 around to face the earth to take a 891 00:41:02,740 --> 00:41:01,359 of the organization this is how I'm 892 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:02,750 going to read out the clues 893 00:41:07,509 --> 00:41:05,690 everybody complain if you think you know 894 00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:07,519 the answer raise up your hand and shout 895 00:41:18,430 --> 00:41:10,250 give your answer if it's wrong 896 00:41:22,930 --> 00:41:18,440 let's go through those same issues Who 897 00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:22,940 am I yeah I am the fictional character 898 00:41:28,250 --> 00:41:24,250 [Music] 899 00:41:32,930 --> 00:41:28,260 was born in 1964 900 00:41:36,290 --> 00:41:32,940 I first came in yell outside deciding my 901 00:41:37,970 --> 00:41:36,300 spotless new make sure yeah I first came 902 00:42:24,410 --> 00:41:37,980 into the popular imagination in the 903 00:42:27,860 --> 00:42:24,420 early 90s that was the end of round one 904 00:42:30,530 --> 00:42:27,870 and I wonder how you went I wonder how 905 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:30,540 you went we'll be reading out the 906 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:32,130 answers in a moment as recorded by 907 00:42:37,700 --> 00:42:35,490 Maynard on the night and the moment 908 00:42:39,830 --> 00:42:37,710 people swapping their papers going 909 00:42:53,829 --> 00:42:39,840 around the tables and I think we're 910 00:43:00,759 --> 00:42:58,959 I knew that you knew that 1981 question 911 00:43:02,859 --> 00:43:00,769 number two the famous racing car driver 912 00:43:08,709 --> 00:43:02,869 in question with the energy polarizer 913 00:43:10,089 --> 00:43:08,719 with speed abroad question number three 914 00:43:15,279 --> 00:43:10,099 where we can find the Carl Sagan 915 00:43:25,539 --> 00:43:15,289 valorization you would find it on one of 916 00:43:28,650 --> 00:43:25,549 the landing sites which is number three 917 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:28,660 the Nazca lines the series of animals 918 00:43:42,029 --> 00:43:39,890 you can find another claim of 919 00:43:46,870 --> 00:43:42,039 psychometry involves feeding information 920 00:43:52,150 --> 00:43:46,880 by touching objects used by the owner 921 00:44:09,099 --> 00:43:52,160 like a watch or a objects used by the 922 00:44:11,019 --> 00:44:09,109 owner then it looks like that which of 923 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:11,029 the following is not logical fallacy the 924 00:44:21,099 --> 00:44:15,170 answer was argument from evidence the 925 00:44:25,010 --> 00:44:21,109 risks illogical and Families is the 926 00:44:29,740 --> 00:44:27,260 that's stayed by me on the phone now 927 00:44:33,950 --> 00:44:29,750 with today's questions about it which 928 00:44:44,420 --> 00:44:33,960 with which rock slide j22 it this 1970s 929 00:45:06,609 --> 00:44:44,430 Alice okay see really just helping the 930 00:45:10,820 --> 00:45:06,619 people who study the Weaver triangle has 931 00:45:19,609 --> 00:45:10,830 corners of the beaver Miami and Porto 932 00:45:21,590 --> 00:45:19,619 Rico first another ten uri geller fail 933 00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:21,600 the worst one with which television 934 00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:23,730 program in 1973 The Tonight Show 935 00:45:28,580 --> 00:45:25,650 Starring Johnny Carson but we will 936 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:28,590 accept clue Tonight Show Johnny Carson 937 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:32,490 or Johnny Carson Wexler the Johnny 938 00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:33,450 Carson show 939 00:45:38,390 --> 00:45:35,250 Tonight Show Johnny Carson Tonight Show 940 00:45:42,380 --> 00:45:38,400 Starring Johnny Carson yes happy to 941 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:42,390 accept orders question number 11 the 942 00:45:51,370 --> 00:45:45,450 claim on with the bridal worth the case 943 00:46:16,210 --> 00:45:51,380 was reincarnation of competitive 944 00:46:16,220 --> 00:46:30,870 [Music] 945 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:34,840 besides like this what's called crypto 946 00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:38,210 zoology and we're very flexible the 947 00:46:43,810 --> 00:46:39,410 Spelling's are those it looks like a 948 00:46:48,970 --> 00:46:43,820 word cryptozoology zoology I notice 949 00:46:52,150 --> 00:46:48,980 cryptids those animals a question 14 rat 950 00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:52,160 fur is the thirty five thousand hundred 951 00:47:03,700 --> 00:46:55,090 year old spirits or 100 year old spirit 952 00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:03,710 who is channeled by Jay said night JZ 953 00:47:08,350 --> 00:47:07,210 Knight corner also learners Judy's zebra 954 00:47:10,420 --> 00:47:08,360 jc9 955 00:47:18,170 --> 00:47:10,430 much better back I'll tell you said 956 00:47:23,460 --> 00:47:21,090 question 15 how many chakras are there 957 00:47:45,420 --> 00:47:23,470 to repeal it but according to books New 958 00:47:57,750 --> 00:47:45,430 Age references 76051 generates therefore 959 00:47:59,970 --> 00:47:57,760 James Randi Educational Foundation 18 960 00:48:02,340 --> 00:47:59,980 who convinced NASA to turn the Voyager 1 961 00:48:03,630 --> 00:48:02,350 spacecraft around to take the photograph 962 00:48:06,450 --> 00:48:03,640 they're missing a blue dot 963 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:06,460 Carl Sagan Carl Sagan suggested the 964 00:48:13,860 --> 00:48:11,410 masturbation truth at 19 965 00:48:19,010 --> 00:48:13,870 quite read what cracker is the study of 966 00:48:23,230 --> 00:48:20,530 [Music] 967 00:48:26,130 --> 00:48:23,240 and the last one susan gerbic heads up 968 00:48:29,770 --> 00:48:26,140 guerrilla skepticism on the Wikipedia 969 00:48:44,830 --> 00:48:29,780 also known as genius Oh W guerrilla 970 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:44,840 skepticism on Wikipedia please page we 971 00:48:49,330 --> 00:48:46,490 actually got a listener to the skeptic 972 00:48:51,370 --> 00:48:49,340 zone that means that it's the listener 973 00:48:53,020 --> 00:48:51,380 we've finally met the listener how are 974 00:48:54,580 --> 00:48:53,030 you wondering wondering of women find 975 00:48:56,170 --> 00:48:54,590 you and we don't know we own record now 976 00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:56,180 oh we are indeed yes now what's your 977 00:48:59,110 --> 00:48:57,650 favorite part the skeptic zone I like 978 00:49:01,090 --> 00:48:59,120 the bit at the end just after Richard 979 00:49:03,670 --> 00:49:01,100 signs off no I like the part when 980 00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:03,680 Richard is petting his cat oh yeah and 981 00:49:07,150 --> 00:49:05,930 you like the cat noises and preparing so 982 00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:07,160 you can hear the pairing on the radio 983 00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:10,010 I'm driving home from work and yes and 984 00:49:15,970 --> 00:49:14,690 I'm hearing the purring and yeah I think 985 00:49:17,530 --> 00:49:15,980 there's plenty of it because while is 986 00:49:19,720 --> 00:49:17,540 recording the show the cats that's when 987 00:49:21,340 --> 00:49:19,730 they want to get on the internet and use 988 00:49:23,380 --> 00:49:21,350 the keyboard and everything yes yes 989 00:49:24,940 --> 00:49:23,390 indeed how'd you go in the quiz tonight 990 00:49:26,650 --> 00:49:24,950 was the question levels without right or 991 00:49:28,510 --> 00:49:26,660 would you like really hard ones we were 992 00:49:30,820 --> 00:49:28,520 leading after round one or we were equal 993 00:49:32,470 --> 00:49:30,830 leaders but we were within you got cocky 994 00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:32,480 you've got this table just got cocky 995 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:34,970 when we came down to just second last so 996 00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:37,370 we avoided the wooden spoon by a few 997 00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:38,930 points and what was the question that 998 00:49:43,810 --> 00:49:40,850 just got beat you all you and I we don't 999 00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:43,820 know we give out I kick myself when I 1000 00:49:50,620 --> 00:49:45,650 couldn't remember the name of RAAM 1001 00:49:54,390 --> 00:49:50,630 was jay-z night because I I actually met 1002 00:49:57,790 --> 00:49:54,400 her when she when she toured Australia 1003 00:49:58,060 --> 00:49:57,800 as a youngster was thing I was 18 at the 1004 00:50:00,370 --> 00:49:58,070 time 1005 00:50:02,710 --> 00:50:00,380 oh good skeptical you know my mother 1006 00:50:05,500 --> 00:50:02,720 dragged me along to look my mum took me 1007 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:05,510 to see you together oh you did she I saw 1008 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:06,890 you together at the Civic Theatre in 1009 00:50:10,150 --> 00:50:08,810 Newcastle we got free tickets cuz that 1010 00:50:11,830 --> 00:50:10,160 they didn't sell well so the radio 1011 00:50:13,190 --> 00:50:11,840 station was given away yeah you know my 1012 00:50:18,380 --> 00:50:13,200 mother was a big fan of 1013 00:50:19,700 --> 00:50:18,390 JZ Knight welcome Mendon you've 1014 00:50:21,650 --> 00:50:19,710 obviously been a few quizzes in your 1015 00:50:23,359 --> 00:50:21,660 time how do we go here I think this was 1016 00:50:24,589 --> 00:50:23,369 probably the third best I've ever seen 1017 00:50:25,940 --> 00:50:24,599 all right now you of course would have 1018 00:50:27,650 --> 00:50:25,950 got the erich von daniken question 1019 00:50:29,750 --> 00:50:27,660 pretty quickly absolutely I can even 1020 00:50:32,180 --> 00:50:29,760 spell Erica well the thing is do you 1021 00:50:33,829 --> 00:50:32,190 capitalize the V or not see some do some 1022 00:50:34,940 --> 00:50:33,839 don't I think we should I think we 1023 00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:34,950 should I think we should have an 1024 00:50:38,180 --> 00:50:36,450 agreement here that we don't capitalize 1025 00:50:39,980 --> 00:50:38,190 fees I was hoping that someone were 1026 00:50:41,390 --> 00:50:39,990 getting mixed up with the falaqa sky on 1027 00:50:43,490 --> 00:50:41,400 ancient aliens and just write the guy of 1028 00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:43,500 the big hair that could be wrong I 1029 00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:45,210 always like von Daniken who had a pipe 1030 00:50:49,339 --> 00:50:47,490 which you never actually smoked oh he 1031 00:50:51,770 --> 00:50:49,349 never lit it he's gone for a bit more 1032 00:50:53,690 --> 00:50:51,780 cigars these days and he's got a bling 1033 00:50:55,490 --> 00:50:53,700 going on and he enjoys a bit of a scotch 1034 00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:55,500 does he really don't we all yeah well 1035 00:50:59,329 --> 00:50:57,450 while he's doing his talk I like the 1036 00:51:02,300 --> 00:50:59,339 idea I mean he's bringing the bling back 1037 00:51:03,589 --> 00:51:02,310 into a studio archaeology because it's 1038 00:51:04,940 --> 00:51:03,599 you know archaeology's at what we could 1039 00:51:06,620 --> 00:51:04,950 call it i think it's rubbish actually 1040 00:51:07,940 --> 00:51:06,630 but you know archaeology will do for the 1041 00:51:09,500 --> 00:51:07,950 time but he's always entertaining 1042 00:51:10,819 --> 00:51:09,510 whatever he turns up on ancient aliens 1043 00:51:12,859 --> 00:51:10,829 you know he's gonna be eminently 1044 00:51:14,270 --> 00:51:12,869 quotable absolutely he always says if 1045 00:51:15,020 --> 00:51:14,280 he's a wonderful gem what we should do 1046 00:51:20,990 --> 00:51:15,030 this again sometime 1047 00:51:38,180 --> 00:51:27,840 [Music] 1048 00:51:43,529 --> 00:51:40,500 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1049 00:51:46,349 --> 00:51:43,539 zone and again thank you to those people 1050 00:51:49,049 --> 00:51:46,359 those kind people who helped the skeptic 1051 00:51:52,079 --> 00:51:49,059 zone by contributing via PayPal or 1052 00:51:56,279 --> 00:51:52,089 patreon at skeptic zone TV thanks to 1053 00:51:58,260 --> 00:51:56,289 your continued support I'm assisting our 1054 00:52:01,410 --> 00:51:58,270 new reporter dr. Paul II who you heard 1055 00:52:03,870 --> 00:52:01,420 last week with her maiden report I'm 1056 00:52:07,380 --> 00:52:03,880 assisting her in buying some equipment 1057 00:52:09,510 --> 00:52:07,390 which he can use to do many things 1058 00:52:12,359 --> 00:52:09,520 including make reports for the skeptic 1059 00:52:13,950 --> 00:52:12,369 zone now I received some comments saying 1060 00:52:16,319 --> 00:52:13,960 that how much they enjoyed dr. paulie's 1061 00:52:18,589 --> 00:52:16,329 report although the technically the 1062 00:52:21,089 --> 00:52:18,599 sound quality could have been better but 1063 00:52:23,420 --> 00:52:21,099 well we all live and learn folks and 1064 00:52:25,859 --> 00:52:23,430 it's an interesting process sometimes 1065 00:52:28,980 --> 00:52:25,869 it's worth getting an interview even if 1066 00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:28,990 the quality technically speaking isn't 1067 00:52:32,430 --> 00:52:30,970 that great but I think it was a 1068 00:52:35,849 --> 00:52:32,440 wonderful interview and a good start for 1069 00:52:38,150 --> 00:52:35,859 dr. Paul II but for this week this is 1070 00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:38,160 Richard Saunders and Maude the cat 1071 00:52:45,299 --> 00:52:41,890 sleeping up there sleeping up there on 1072 00:52:47,730 --> 00:52:45,309 top of the top of my dresser drawers I 1073 00:52:49,500 --> 00:52:47,740 can't get her to meow at the moment 1074 00:52:51,930 --> 00:52:49,510 because she's sound asleep we'll try for 1075 00:52:58,109 --> 00:52:51,940 next week signing off from Sydney 1076 00:53:00,809 --> 00:52:58,119 Australia you've been listening to the 1077 00:53:06,390 --> 00:53:00,819 skeptic zone podcast please visit our 1078 00:53:08,849 --> 00:53:06,400 website at WWE TV for shownotes contacts 1079 00:53:12,900 --> 00:53:08,859 and to access the bat catalog of 1080 00:53:14,609 --> 00:53:12,910 episodes going back to 2008 you can 1081 00:53:17,670 --> 00:53:14,619 follow the skeptic zone podcast on 1082 00:53:19,950 --> 00:53:17,680 twitter at skeptic zone visit our 1083 00:53:23,309 --> 00:53:19,960 facebook page or leave a review on 1084 00:53:26,700 --> 00:53:23,319 iTunes you can also support the skeptic 1085 00:53:29,039 --> 00:53:26,710 zone via patreon or PayPal the skeptic 1086 00:53:30,990 --> 00:53:29,049 zone podcast is an independent 1087 00:53:33,210 --> 00:53:31,000 production reviews and opinions 1088 00:53:35,339 --> 00:53:33,220 expressed on the skeptic zone are not 1089 00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:35,349 necessarily those of Australian skeptics